Energy Captains
Energy Captains
Pro Soccer Player Amobi Okugo
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In this episode of Energy Captains, Whitney Holtzman Seufert is joined by former NFL player Cameron Lynch and entrepreneur/former MLS player Amobi Okugo for an insightful conversation around leadership, resilience, and creating impact beyond sports. Together, they discuss the mindset required to perform at a high level, the transition from athletics into entrepreneurship and business, and how intentional energy, discipline, and relationships shape long-term success. The episode offers an authentic look into personal growth, purpose-driven leadership, and what it truly means to become an “energy captain” both professionally and personally.
Okay, everyone, welcome back to another episode of Energy Captains. I'm here with the greatest co-host ever, Whitney Holtzman, who just got married recently. Whitney, how you feeling? You have a new last name here on the on the title or the lower third. What's that like like to marry last?
SPEAKER_00So um it's totally I it I'm I feel like that it was I waited until I met the right person. And so that's made this whole chapter just feel like made me feel like I'm on cloud nine. Um, it's definitely weird that all of a sudden you have a whole identity. I thought I'd kind of run away from it, but like because I love him and I love the life we're building, I've actually totally embraced it. Um, there's it's definitely complicated to change your name. Like we had this situation where we deposited some checks we got for our wedding, and the when we were on our mini moon, the bank put a hold on our account for fraud because it said like pay e, not on account. Like I just would I've told everyone like before you deposit any checks you get for your wedding, which is like pretty much only the boomers get checks, you know, give you checks, but change your name, change your bank, like merge your bank account, and then deposit the checks. Like I learned the hard way. That was something that no one told me prior to the wedding, but you know, we were worried about the weather and some of the other elements, and we just had three perfect days. I would love to know your honest take, because obviously you were there. Um, and I think it's so cool that we met, like started working together here in Tampa, the Bucks brought us together, and then I was at your wedding in Hawaii, you were in mine in Tampa. So now you returned the favor, and I would love to hear your thoughts.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was amazing, right by the water. Um, it was at the Rusty Pelican in Tampa. Um it was amazing, a great venue, Whitney. And Ernick and I were talking, like, wow, if we did it in Tampa, like we would have liked to have done it there too. Um I'm honored to so great, great location, great pick. Um, one thing I will say, very unique that I haven't seen, is the walkway up into where you get married, that having like the football field there, Whitney. Outstanding. It was so fitting. The cake as well. That was my second favorite part was the cake. Um, it had University of Florida, it had the Buccaneers, it had what you all are passionate about. And then the third, we my top three favorite moment for your wedding was the were the Lego, Lego pieces that that that showed where everyone sat at. Um outstanding. I mean, there's those are three items that I saw at the wedding that I haven't seen anywhere before. So uh congrats, that was that was awesome.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, thank you. And I'll just say, like uh the two points of feedback that we got were thank you from people for the convenience. So we had people stay at the current hotel which shared a parking lot with the Rusty Pelican, and it was just so nice. It's like we have been to so many weddings where you're on buses, you're going from this point to that point to this dinner, and you're all over. And it's exhausting, it's very draining for people, or you have to fly to the middle of nowhere and then rent a car and drive two hours from some remote airport, and we didn't want to do that to people. Like we, our priority was making sure it was a great experience for everyone else. And so having the convenience of the Friday night welcome reception we had at the hotel, Saturday and Sunday, we're at the Rusty Pelican, and people just could pop back and forth. And I think that they appreciated that. The other thing I'll say is that it was important for us to have the wedding be an amplification of who we are. We weren't trying to meet a certain, you know, fancy standard for us. It was we wanted to share our hearts and what we were passionate about. And I think our authenticity hopefully came across in the vows. Like, you know, we just kept it very real. But I had this idea that one night, like, oh my gosh, I've always, you know, I really want to get married, starting at the 50-yard line and walk to have that be my aisle, and then get married in the quote unquote end zone. So sure enough, after everyone else walked down the aisle, you know, we had someone literally make a football field aisle, and I started my walk at the 50-yard line, and I felt like everyone really like sharing the surprises with people that we had been working on. Like, no one knew about that, no one knew about our Lego seating chart. You mentioned the cake. We didn't even see it until the day of I literally cried. I was dressed as Tom Brady, but a wedding dress, and Chad was Tim Tebow. Um, and it looked so much like us. Shout out to the cake girl. Um, and so it was just, oh, and our cocktail napkins had the messages that Chad sent me when we were dating. And I you have to tell me, but like, weren't they kind of hilarious?
SPEAKER_01Whitney, they were hilarious. And then Whitney, I I will say, um, your pin game is insane. I mean, I I know Chad right sent you those messages. Now those are that was his pin game, but for your vows, Whitney, like they were so we were up there roving. Like, I was and one of the guys that sit next to me was Eric Dungeon. He was like, I didn't know Whitney was as funny. I'm like, she's a comedian, she's a comedian. So I said, pin game was insane. Um, just the dawfulness of of the wedding and those some of those surprises, those Easter eggs that popped up uh for the crowd. That was that was very well done.
SPEAKER_00So well, I hope you guys had fun now that you have a baby at home. And also I heard your wife had to go to like Shanghai the next day or something. Like, thank you for being there.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. Um, we had to make sure to tell her company that you can't have events um the week of Whitney's wedding. So we did it the weekend.
SPEAKER_00I'm surprised it wasn't on their calendar in China.
SPEAKER_01So it worked out. It worked out, but yeah, Whitney, that was really magical. And um, yeah, Whitney, any other any other thoughts before we bring our guests on just from the wedding, like anything you want to share?
SPEAKER_00Um I mean, I think we'll, you know, we'll keep everyone, everyone posted. I'm sharing my you know wedding advice as I learned that situation with the checks and the bank account, big deal. But I mean, I I say we transitioned from one football to the other football. So why don't you kick it off by introducing our guest?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so uh I'm excited to bring our guest on today. I met I met this guest, it had to be maybe five years ago under spitball, but probably five years ago. It was at the Black Sports Symposium in Atlanta. Um, we connected there. Um, you know, I told him what I did. I was like, yeah, I'm working at Visa and in this champions, Visa Champions Program. He's like, champions program, what is that? So send him the link. Little do I know, like a couple of years later, like Amobi is like knocking at the door at Visa. Um in the team's channels, you know, like he's there and he found a way to get accepted. So um without further ado, I want to introduce Amobi Okugo, um, one of the brothers at Visa, uh Visa Champion and Amobi, man. Um, thank you for joining us. Um, just I just want to read this off, um, read this off, but you're a former pro soccer player. Um, so please share with us, you know, what teams you play for. Um, also, you have termed this, this, coined this term um the multi-hyphenant corporate entrepreneur. And so I would love to double-click into that because Whitney, Whitney was one of the first people that I thought of when I when I met Amobi, um, when I just I saw that term multi-hyphenic corporate uh corporate entrepreneur. Whitney, I feel like uh, you know, she embodies that as well or used to when she worked at you know ESPN and some of these other companies before starting her own. But Amobi, welcome to the Energy Captain's podcast, man. Thank you for joining us. Uh man, how you feeling?
SPEAKER_03No, I'm feeling good, feeling full of energy, you know. Yeah, hearing y'all speak. Uh it's a pleasure to be here. And for context, I had known about YouTube for quite some time because Kelvin Beecham had uh uh gave a shout out about some of the things that y'all have been doing. So when I first started some of the things that I did on the athlete empowerment, uh Kelvin had mentioned you and then uh Whitney in terms of like uh a good combination of people doing it the right way. So then we finally got to meet in person at the Black Sports Symposium, and it just like everything clicked. So now we're here. So it's funny how roles collide.
SPEAKER_00Amobi, you already made our day. I mean, it sounds like Cam, you didn't know that either. I didn't even know Kelvin Beacham knew that I was alive. So to hear him like use us as an example, like that is such a, you know, we we always try and do the right thing and we uh, you know, follow a path that feels right to us, but it's it's really meaningful when you know other people um use it as a testimonial. You feel like then you've really made a difference.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's I mean, and also and also too, uh Whitney, we did see Kevin Beachum at the Super Bowl at Radio Row. Um we were talking to the Big Brothers, one of the Big Brothers uh community, and we saw him there. So, but Whitney, that was after Amobi joined Visa, though. So Kelvin must have mentioned that way beforehand, because I think that's the rubber was 2023.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and also we met him, I remember that we met him really quickly, but they were having um, you know, someone from I think Big Brothers, Big Sisters interview him, and it was like a you know, hi, you know, we ran in there, you know, it was on radio row, and so it was such a quick interaction. I I really can't believe that if that was the the moment that even that stuck with him. So that's that's really cool. Thank you for sharing that, Amobi. You you know made us feel really good.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, most definitely. That's what it's all about. It's crazy how just how small the world is and how things come full circle.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, I always say that all good people in the in this industry tend to know each other.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it's a sm it's a small world. And what I will say, talking about being a small world, Amobi, um, once you let's let's talk about, I want to talk about the corporate entrepreneur part, but let's talk about the corporate side first and Visa, um, the champions program, what your journey's been like. Um, you know, I've been at Visa for five years. I know you're going on two years at Visa, I feel like. And so um, what's your journey been like there so far? Um, you know, with with the other champions as well. I feel free to tag in some of the other champions as you share your Visa journey.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so for the people not familiar, I know you went through the program too. So Visa Champions is a wonderful program that um basically allows for professional athletes uh um what's the best way to an immersion experience into the corporate corporate world. So instead of diving in two feet in, you dive in two feet in with like a life jacket, as I like to say. So we do three eight-month rotations, and right now I'm uh at toward I'm towards the end of my rotation, so I'll either roll off or find another job um internally or externally. But I think the biggest uh the biggest thing with the Visa Champions program is that it's just uh uh you get a great immersive experience uh with Visa. And Visa obviously is a top company, it's a very sticky business. It doesn't matter if you want to do risk, legal, compliance, marketing, sponsorships, payments, fintech. Like Visa has a role or a space or a pathway for you if you are attractive and want to do that. And it's been a great experience. Um so far, I've been on the Global Product Affluent team, I've been on a commercial solution sales team, and I'm currently on a product team for our loyalty and points division. So um I've been able to see a whole uh spectrum of different uh opportunities, uh a lot of cross-functional roles and responsibilities, but I'm enjoying it. I'm I'm enjoying it, and I've been able to uh not only build my network within Visa, but also just develop some skills that I needed maybe some fine-tuning or needed to unlock because I I I had them, but I didn't have them in the corporate setting. So yeah, it's been uh it's been a great experience. And I've done it uh along with my cohort. So uh Andrew Wheeler Omanu, who's also a former soccer player. You have Colette, uh, who just got married, so I don't know her new last name. Um but she was a former rower um who's doing amazing things at Visa. Um you have Whitney, who was the first WNBA player to be part of the Visa Champions Program. Uh Jamel, who's a former football player. Uh and then also we have um damn, why am I forget her name?
SPEAKER_01Um is uh is she a skier? Is it a skier?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, Cassidy. So she's on the soccer team. She represents the United States um on our um on our uh Paralympic uh team. Soc, yeah. Yeah, woman. So it's a it's a good group. Uh everyone gets along and uh and we're hoping to like iron sharpets iron, everyone comes up together.
SPEAKER_00And so I'm curious where you're located. And then again, this is something the average person is never gonna get to be a part of. So what is the application and interview process like to ultimately land this opportunity?
SPEAKER_03Okay, yeah. So I'm located in SF. So I report to the SF office. I actually live in Sacramento, so I commute um to two-hour commute. Yeah, it's like an hour and a half, two hour commute uh each way. Yep. Do you drive? Uh sometimes I drive, sometimes I mostly take the train, though.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. So what time do you leave? What time do you get home?
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah. So a normal day is like I leave my house around 5:30, and then I get to the office 8:45, 9. Um, and then I leave around 4:35. If I work out, then I'll probably leave around 6, 7, and then get home around 8:30 to 10.
SPEAKER_00Okay, and why why are we doing this? Is there no housing?
SPEAKER_03So I have I have my I have my mortgage in Sacramento, and then when I originally got the job, I was like, I don't want to sell my spot, so I'm just gonna figure it out. And if I like it, then I'll just get like a condo or apartment in uh SF and then I'll just have double duty. But I had to be financially responsible because I still have my spot in Philadelphia where I was playing, where I played uh during my professional career. So I was like, there's no way I'm paying for Philadelphia, even though I was renting it out, but it was empty, and then paying for my mortgage, and then getting so I had to be physically responsible. But I've since sold my Philly spot, so I'll potentially, depending on how things work out, I'll end up getting it.
SPEAKER_00I'm so relieved. I'm so relieved that we can't keep having you go through this. Although it is a good amount of time to listen to energy captains episodes, you could really get caught up on like the whole show in one day. Exactly. My goodness. And is that five days a week?
SPEAKER_03No, uh it is three, two to three times a week, and depending on your manager, I know we have um um return to office protocol, but with um there's still some stipulations that allow you to not have to be fully engaged in the RTO. So it works out.
SPEAKER_00Okay, return to office is RTO. Yeah, what do you do?
SPEAKER_03Sorry, yeah.
SPEAKER_00What do you do on the commute just out of curiosity for a yeah?
SPEAKER_03I'm I'm listening to audiobooks, podcasts, or if I'm on the train, I can get some work done. So the train is is super helpful when I'm driving. It's mostly I catch up on calls and um podcasts, audio, audio, audibles.
SPEAKER_00Got it. And so just kind of give us a quick recap of your professional playing career, and then I'm curious how you knew it was time to transition from soccer into maybe the corporate world. Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_03So um, yeah, I grew up playing soccer, basketball, soccer. I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to play at a high level at a very young age. So ended up going to UCLA, and after my freshman year, I went pro. So I originally got drafted in 2010 to Philadelphia Union, spent five years there, signed a new contract with Orlando, uh, bounced around after that between Orlando, Kansas City, Portland. Ended up being a free agent for a year, and then signed uh my last deal with Austin Bold in the second division. And I always tell people it's like once you start getting picky about where you're gonna play and all these different stipulations, that might be time to uh hang it up. And I was always already thinking about stuff like I had already started a couple of adventures while I was playing, and um yeah, uh I guess it was games were fun, locker room camaraderie was fun, but it's just like the day-to-day.
SPEAKER_00Um that's for the kids now. Leave it to the kids. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03If I could have just shown up and show up for the games, I would have kept playing. But uh it kind of the decision kind of happened for me because the Austin team folded and I really loved Austin. I would have kept playing there, even though second division, obviously, I was trying to get back to the first division. Um, it just never happened to the uh standard that I wanted. So I I had a good final year, and I was like, all right, I'm turning a certain age. I want to be able to transition smoothly, let's make the decision now. It didn't really have a lot of fanfare, wasn't trying to do the whole kumbaya, just on to the next, and that's kind of how it worked.
SPEAKER_00And do professional soccer players like is it like the NFL where you have agents and they call you with opportunities and you say, Okay, you have this X amount of contract, and yeah.
SPEAKER_03So my agent, he was like, he was like, Yo, this team wants you. And I was like, Where? Nah, I can't do that. Yeah, I can't do that. So after I I yeah, I moved around five times, five different cities over the course of the 12-year career. So I was just like, it has to be the right, and it nothing, I mean, I was just being picky, and when you're being picky like that, you're finding excuses.
SPEAKER_00So it was that means you got to do it on your terms, which is cool.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. It worked.
SPEAKER_00Did you have one favorite experience or maybe one experience you didn't love as much? Just like in general, when you look back on your career, what are the moments that stand out?
SPEAKER_03Uh to be honest, every city, every team I played on was amazing. I think Kansas City was the biggest surprise just because you think of Kansas City as a flyover city. Um, but even though I didn't play that much because I was injured for a majority of my time there, um, the people, the team, uh, it was just a pleasant surprise. I mean, Philadelphia, I'm always gonna have a special place in my heart for them. Portland, just from the fan base, uh, just an amazing atmosphere. Um, but Kansas City was just like the biggest surprise and a pleasant surprise at that. So I guess I'll give them their shout out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I feel like go ahead and sorry, Moby.
SPEAKER_01I just wanted to ask you, what made you set roots in a Philly? I know you got drafted in a Philly, but like what made you be like, hey, I'm gonna get a crib here. This is the spot. And the reason why I asked you that, like, if you were to do it again, would you set roots in Philly with like your mortgage and everything like that? Because you know, a lot of times the young athletes, you know, they're like they're ready to buy the car and they change. You bought a crib, thankfully, so you went in the right direction. But yeah, why Philly would you do it there again?
SPEAKER_03No, so honestly, I would not do it again. Uh, just because, you know, as an athlete, you're always like they say, once you buy a house, you're about to get traded. So if anything, I would have bought somewhere where I like after where I thought I was gonna settle in after my career, or back in my hometown. Like that would be my suggestion for anyone as an athlete that's looking to like invest in property, either buy where you're looking to settle post-career or buy in your hometown, just because you're always gonna have some sort of roots there. Um, but for me, it just kind of happened. Uh, I had been in Philly for five years, or I that was my first team. So I came in as an 18-year-old young young boy, kind of developed and evolved as a young man. And I had been, I was renting the spot at the time, and the landlords were like, yo, just give me your heads up. We're looking to sell, so you're gonna have to. And I was like, Oh, I mean, I like the spot. Y'all would y'all sell to me? Not really like looking, and it just kind of happened like that. And um, a year later, ended up signing a new contract with Orlando. But in all in hindsight, I probably would have used that money to buy back back in Sacramento.
SPEAKER_00And how does the draft process work for pro soccer? So you played for years at UCLA, as you mentioned, is there a minimum amount of time that you have to stay in college? And then were you expecting to be drafted or was it a big surprise?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so it's a great question. So you can get drafted at any moment. Obviously, in soccer, the draft is not as prevalent as it is in NFL or MBA, and there's no requirement in terms of if you go to college, you have to stay a certain amount of years. Um, but soccer in America is still like trying to catch up on a global level. So there was like an enticement program sponsored by Adidas called the Generation Adidas Program that enticed young players or underclassmen to go pro uh in exchange for a reimbursement of their college um education. So that's what kind of um was the springboard for me going pro. I had a certain amount of interest. Um, and then the generation Adidas talked to the agent that I was working with and suggested I would be a good prospect, good candidate. So I knew I was gonna at the very least get drafted. I ended up getting drafted with the sixth pick overall. I didn't think that was gonna happen. I wasn't uh initially projected to go that high, but things happened where I had a good combine. Um, I guess they linked in my tape.
SPEAKER_01Things the combine like uh it's not it's not NFL.
SPEAKER_03So we basically just like we're not the underwear Olympics.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So we kind of just have like a series of scrimmages with um the top prospects that have either answered their name in the draft or are gonna be a generation to do this, or our top prospects that coaches want to get like another look at, but they haven't necessarily declared and um go there. But I ended up having like some good games, and um I think I shot up in the draft that time.
SPEAKER_00And like the sixth pick in the NFL's like in the $30 something million dollar range, I assume that's the contract was awesome.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's funny. Got a hearty laugh on that one. Yeah, right, right.
SPEAKER_00Um you know, we're just trying to learn about different industries, and hopefully, you know, soccer will continue to be on the up and up. So you all are there at at some point.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, soccer's growing, but uh I mean the sixth pick, if I was the sixth pick in the MLS and it was somewhat like a fraction of what the NFL gets, uh that would be I probably wouldn't be on this podcast. You see me like in Tulum or the Bahamas somewhere.
SPEAKER_00I see, I see. But is it good? Do soccer players do you get a bonus? Is it enough to live? Like you please you don't have to share your financials with us, but give people an idea of just in general, like what that means for your lifestyle.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, most definitely. So now I would say the average soccer player, if you play, like if you played, I played 12 years, uh, eight in MLS. If you play eight years in MLS, you'll probably walk away with if you're doing if you're smart with your money. And in terms of career earnings, you'll probably walk away with anywhere from two to five million.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_03That's amazing consistently. Um I was started at MLS in 2010, so fortunately, you know, I was fortunate enough to make a six-figure salary throughout my career. Um but that wasn't I was Generation Adidas, and that kind of helped me be in a higher um performance bracket. So we do have bonuses. I I got a signing bonus for being part of the first round. I got a signing bonus for being a generation Adidas contract. Um, but the average salary when I was playing was 70,000 just because you had the senior minimum. The mean between the highest salary player and the lowest salary player was super big. Whereas now it's still super big, but the the lower end of the salary has gone drastically up if that makes sense. So yeah, but I would say you have some breathing room once you you're once you're done playing, if you have at least an eight to 10 year career.
SPEAKER_00That sounds way better than sitting in an office.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I would think you say you can sit in an office for 40 plus years. You can only play for a certain amount of time, depending on if a coach likes you or not.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and Bobby, I wanted to ask you like about the World Cup, right? I know Team USA they just got announced recently. Um, were you ever even were you ever close to like being on a uh the national team? Um, yeah, like what were your thoughts about that whole experience a couple of days ago with Team USA getting announced?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I was uh youth national team mainstay. So all the way from U-14 to Olympic cycle. Unfortunately, our Olympic cycle never qualified. So that was the closest I got to the national team. Wait, what does that mean?
SPEAKER_00Your Olympic cycle never qualified.
SPEAKER_03Uh so we uh I was I would have been on the Olympic team, but we didn't qualify for the Olympics. So talk about timing. Yeah, so yeah, we lost in a qualification, so we didn't get to go to London 2012. So it's still a bitter uh pill to swallow. But um I was part of every youth, uh every national team cycle for each age group, each level. Just I never made it to the final, the I didn't, I never made it to the penthouse.
SPEAKER_00Uh but now you're part of it at Visa, you just get to go in a different capacity.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. So it all works out, but um, that was one checkbox that wasn't checked off when it comes to the career, but very close. I I I got the Olympic cycle, I was part of like the pre-camps, but never got that national team full.
SPEAKER_00But I almost think it's like hearing your story, there's so much success and like wonderful things that have happened. I feel like it's almost good to know for other people that there was like a huge disappointment and something that was out of your control, and there was nothing you could do to move the needle, like it just wasn't in the cards, but that's okay because then you had other experiences that maybe other people didn't. Like each person has their own path.
SPEAKER_03Oh, you're exactly right. Yeah. Rejection is just redirection. And I know we can all attest in our careers, like there's been times where I've got cut, I've got injured, I've got traded, but it's it's led to something better, whether it's on the field or even off the field in a personal life. So uh I just feel ever grateful and always trying to look at the whole field versus like the lane I'm in.
SPEAKER_01What's the craziest cut story or like trade story that you've been a part of? Mine was on hard knocks when they like, of course, they record you getting fired and then going to the next team. But like, what was your You guys in the episode?
SPEAKER_03I didn't I didn't see that one.
SPEAKER_00I'm sorry. Cam Cam forgot to mention that it happened twice.
SPEAKER_03Two times, but on hard knocks twice.
SPEAKER_01On hard knocks twice. Well, okay. I made the team the second time on hard knocks. When I went to Buccaneers, I made the team that time. Okay. But the first time, LA ram to St. Louis, where St. Louis, Missouri talked about Kansas City being a great city. I doubled down on that. The barbecue people great. Um, we make the move to Los Angeles. I'm I'm back home in LA. I'm like, this is great. I'm gonna make the team. Didn't didn't make the team, went to the Buccaneers after, like a year after that, Buccaneers had hard knocks. It was me versus like Riley Bulla, good guy. Who's gonna make the team? The three-year veteran or like the rookie, you know? And uh I ended up making it, which was great. And they aired me getting fired on the Rams hard knocks on the Buccaneers hard knocks. So I'm glad they saved me on the first round, but then they kind of aired it out on the second one. So yeah, quite quite the experience.
SPEAKER_00They just look for where Cam is gonna get. And then that's how they decide what to film.
SPEAKER_01And then of course, both teams go to the Super Bowl the years after I leave. So it's you know, yeah, yeah. But yeah, what about you, Amobi? Yeah, what about you?
SPEAKER_03Oh, so I would say um the craziest one, and it it was the fuel to like spark my like career. Uh, it was the U17 World Cup. We were the la at the last camp in Germany. This was like the last camp everyone knows, like the roster is going to be announced after this trip. And I didn't make the U-17 qualifying team, and that was like the spark. So from April to whenever, I'll say August, because I think the World Cup was um in September. I was probably one of the top players, like just vengeance, but it wasn't enough. So on the flight back, it was John Hackworth. I still and I'll I'll tie it all in after, but John Hackworth was the U-17 men's national team coach, and he made cuts on our flight back. So everyone, we're all chilling at the terminal, waiting. Just like everyone's eager, like, yo, is anyone like when do we find out? When do we find out? And we're all we have a long layover. Um, so we're just chilling. Me and my buddy Nick Millington, he was also one of the last people cut. Oh, let me say we're alternates, but no one wants to hear your alternate. It means you're cut.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So uh while we're waiting, because we have a long layover, Coach John Hackworth has like starts like um getting people and talking to them to one one-on-one. So he talked to somebody in the airport. The guy comes back crying. I said, Oh, he's making cuts right now. So me and Nick are like trying to like like avoid, like get out of his eyesight, like yo. So me and Nick won't find you. Yeah, he won't find me. Me and Nick, we're one of his good, we're we're good buddies. We're like, yo, we gotta just hide in the corner and like act like we're like asleep. So we're gonna like, yo, if he's gonna cut us face to face, but ended up like, yeah, uh, ended up having that conversation. And like, you know, once you get it, you're you're not gonna make it everything else, like you're just zoned out.
SPEAKER_00Um were was everyone allowed back on the plane if you got cut, like are you stuck in?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. So we all flew back. So everyone's flying back. You got some people like crying, emotional, some people are just like, yeah, so it was it was a tough one.
SPEAKER_00So wait, I want a reality show on like this whole process. Like, I want to be on the plane, and we're not talking like a plane like Tampa to New York, like a few hours, like you're in Germany, like those sites are not comfortable anyway. Now, finding out like you have to be with like your coworkers who got the final rows, and then you're like cast away. No, thank you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so yeah, it was tough, especially like being at that age. But so didn't make the World Cup for the U17. So that was probably like the the one that I guess stings the most. But so two years later, the assistant coach for Philadelphia Union is John Hackworth, and he was a big advocate for me getting drafted to sixth pick. So it's all full circle. And when I get drafted, he's like, uh my dad always tells me this. He uh coach John Hackworth had spoken to him to the side, he was like, Yeah, um crazy how we're here now. I remember, you know, cutting your son a Moby and telling him to use it as fuel. And he definitely did that and more. So just things that happen. We talked about earlier, like that rejection just leads to redirection. And sometimes you need that as a fuel to go to the level that you know you you can reach.
SPEAKER_01Thankfully, you didn't cuss him out a Moby, because he knows it picks you take you top six if you cuss them out after that.
SPEAKER_00Well, and we always talk about like find the boss who sees the world the same way you do, find someone who thinks you hung the moon, and it just goes to show that he was still the right person. It just wasn't the right moment, but he believed in you so much that when it mattered even more, like he chose you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So yeah, he was a big part of my career, both in those tough moments and then getting drafted, and then even making my breakthrough at Philly because the first couple years I was playing, I wasn't, I was playing, I wasn't, and then he ended up getting the head coaching job, and he was like, yo, you're ready. And um, so he's a big testament to my career.
SPEAKER_00Amazing. Shout out to him for sure. We love people who open doors.
SPEAKER_03I'm curious now that I still made fun of him though, for cutting me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right. In the air in an airport, I feel like maybe he could work on his firing skills.
SPEAKER_01Yes, that's an HR thing. Like we shouldn't do that anymore.
SPEAKER_00Maybe he could take a little off the fastball and wait till we land. And that you're not in public with all your other, I mean, prudence. Yeah, I think he should stick to soccer and maybe not not HR. Um, but I'm curious with Visa, like, will you be involved at all in the World Cup? Or how does like now that you're in a different capacity, like, will you get to go to games or what's your involvement gonna be?
SPEAKER_03That's a great question. That's a that's a Cam question. Uh he has the plug at Visa. Visa, Cameron knows everyone at Visa. So yeah, I do have a little bit of overlap with the teams that I've been on. Um, the Global Product Affluent. We we do a lot of cross-functional work with uh some of the teams that are doing stuff with FIFA, obviously, because it's a really big asset that Visa has. And then currently on the loyalty and points team, I'm working on a couple uh Visa adjacent projects. But in terms of like, yo, we know you played soccer, Visa, soccer, FIFA, big sponsor. We want you to go. No, it hasn't yet. Not yet. Not yet. I haven't got that.
SPEAKER_01It's a it's a source file, Winnie, similar to like the the Super Bowl stuff, you know. It's like it winny gets it, she gets it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I totally understand. Okay, so for well, you can be our personal broadcaster, like we will watch your show. So on this podcast, tell us what we should know, like the average viewer, what we should be excited about, like it help us get pumped for the World Cup or just even familiar.
SPEAKER_03No, most definitely. I mean, first and foremost, it's gonna be one of the biggest World Cups known to date. I mean, the last time the World Cup was in uh the United States was obviously 1994. This World Cup is expanded to 48 teams, which is great because you're gonna be able to see more nations, more cultures, more styles of play. Uh, it might um, I don't want to say, drop the level because of teams that may not have had the opportunity to qualify before, but the World Cup is all about bringing the world together through the greatest sport in the world. Sorry, Cameron. Uh football. And uh US has a good team. Um, you know, you have the likes of the. I would say, yeah, good enough to go to the quarterfinals. Whether or not they make that happen, um, that's up to them. But you have the likes of Christian Polisic, you have Weston McKinney, Tyler Adams, Chris Richards, uh, top players uh that are playing at a high level that can hopefully lead the team to at least at the very least the quarterfinal.
SPEAKER_00Um are you friends with any of these guys from your playing days?
SPEAKER_03So I'm I'm aged out. This this this current cycle is uh is a lot of younger guys. Um the only one that's still playing that like came into the league or playing when I was around was uh Tim Reen. So he's actually in his second World Cup cycle. He was actually uh, we were in the same draft class. He was um a steal. He was like a late first round, second round pick, I believe. Is he a goalie?
SPEAKER_01Is he a goalie or what position is he?
SPEAKER_03He's a center back. So he played at New York Red Bulls, did it did extremely well there, played in Europe, uh played in England for quite some time, and then he's currently playing in Charlotte and MLS. Great player, strong left foot, um, just a super smart cerebral player. Um, not sure if he'll be a starter this time around. He's a combination of like a veteran presence, but also can get the job done. But um do you know Miles Robinson?
SPEAKER_01Syracuse guy, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, Syracuse guy, top player. Um obviously did his thing in Atlanta, he's currently playing in Cincinnati. Uh he's gonna be a top, top player. Um, to expect to see a lot of it out of him. But from the world standpoint, Cristiano, um all but likely his last World Cup. Leon O'Messi, all but likely his last World Cup. Uh Neymar, all but likely his last World Cup. And these are probably the three greatest superstars of the last 15 years, 15, 20 years. Um, so to see them on home soil uh in a World Cup is gonna be a sight to see.
SPEAKER_01Why was Neymar crying so much, Emobi? I mean, I I mean, of course, like it's an honor to make the World Cup team, but like it seemed like that cry he had in his biking was a little bit different. Is it because of it? Is it his last one, or does he think he's phasing out?
SPEAKER_03Okay, yeah, so it's it's probably gonna be his last one. He's dealt with a lot of injuries. Um, and you got to think of Neymar. He's been the top prospect since he's been 14 years old. And a lot has been put on his shoulders. He's he's he's been coined like the prince that was promised to Brazil. Uh, and some people say like the prince that never became king because he hasn't won a World Cup. And Brazil, obviously, they have the most World Cups. A lot has been put on his shoulders. Uh all be it, if Neymar's career were to end today, he's probably still one of the Brazil's greatest all-time players. He's led Brazil to the semifinal in home soil. He's led them to their first ever Olympic gold medal in soccer. He's like he's done he's done everything from a soccer standpoint, except when like the Bologna d'Or, which is a voting contest at the end of the year.
SPEAKER_01With Messi and Ronaldo playing it's hard to win. Exactly. It's like Jordan LeBron. It's like, how can I win with Jordan LeBron? Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. It's like Jordan LeBron and then Kobe's jumping in. Like uh some people are gonna say, but it's tough.
SPEAKER_00You hit on an interesting point or analogy for me. It's kind of like how they've expanded the March Madness bracket, where you're like, oh, there's some talent that's not exactly top tier, but you get those Cinderella stories, exactly, you know, exposure to the Florida Gulf Coasts and the you know, who walked out last year with the boom box and became the manager and became so. I feel like maybe we'll get more of those human interest moments just because you know there are teams that maybe aren't are new or uh were invited, not necessarily, you know, they made they wouldn't have made it in past World Cups, but they'll have cool stories because they're getting an opportunity this year that didn't exist.
SPEAKER_03You're exactly right. Like two countries that come to mind are Cape Verde, who's never been to the World Cup, and then Haiti, whose last World Cup was over 40 years ago. So those are two countries that are gonna just show out and show up in a big way. And like this is what the World Cup is all about to expose the world to different cultures, whether it's through soccer, obviously, um in light of the world geopolitics, this is just gonna be a great opportunity for everyone to come together and obviously during those 90 minutes on the game, we'll be enemies, but other than that, everyone's gonna be friends and get along.
SPEAKER_00You have to love the underdog who's just happy to be there. Like, how can you not be touched by that story? And those this opportunity is gonna change their lives, and they may not have had it if the field hadn't expanded.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. What do you think? I'll be going to games, just not through Visa.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Well, you'll have to keep us posted. Like I said, you're a broadcaster. I'm curious what you think of the crazy ticket prices. I feel like that's been a huge news to me.
SPEAKER_01Good question.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's a great question. You know, the great thing about sports is that it's accessible to any anybody and everybody, like, especially soccer. All you need is a ball and some space, and you can play. And we want to make sure it's accessible from a viewing standpoint. So maybe not behind so many paywalls, but then uh to at least experience it, it's it's very tough to see what's being going on. Um because these are memories that are supposed to be made. And if you can't access it, it's already tough because uh it's across three different uh countries Canada, US, and Mexico. So for uh sorry, for a fan that wants to support his team, for them to ask them to go from Mexico City to LA to New York, that's already a tough ask. But then to factor in the ticket cost, you're you're destroying the essence of what the beautiful game is all about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And obviously, you know, a lot goes into it and you do have to make some sort of profit, but at what cost are you, you know, ruining um commercializing the the sport versus like making it what the sport is all about?
SPEAKER_00Thank you for speaking to the average person who like couldn't buy a ticket and like making us feel seem invalidated, like, oh, I want to be exposed, I want to be a part of this, but like it's cost prohibitive.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And well, I wanted to ask them what else? Okay, we don't have to go too far in because I know Visa's a sponsor of FIFA. You played soccer. I think you're on the board for uh for one of the FIFA things as well. Is that how you're going to the game?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I'm all part of the U.S. Soccer Athletes Council. So through them, I'm able to get um access to games. I still have to pay, but um, I'm able to, instead of putting my name in the raffle and different things like that. And then fortunately, similar to Cameron, I know a couple people that know a couple people, so I was able to pull some strings and get some tickets through other uh mechanisms. But as we talked about earlier, if you don't have those resources or access, how are you gonna get access to the game?
SPEAKER_00And do you know which games you're going to?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I'm going to all US group games, uh LA, US versus Paraguay, US versus Australia and Seattle, and then US versus Turkey. And then I'll be going to the Brazil-Scotland game in Miami, and then I'll be going to uh Japan versus Netherlands in Dallas.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, with more to be determined.
SPEAKER_00Will you do you have social media that will like will you be sharing your experience with people?
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah, I'll be sharing, I'll be vlogging, I'll be tagging everybody.
SPEAKER_00So okay, what are your accounts so people can follow along?
SPEAKER_03Oh, thank you. So I'm at Amobi Says. Um, I usually talk about stuff around athlete empowerment, sports business, my life, but and some soccer stuff. So yeah, be on the lookout at Amobi Says, A M O B I says S A Y.
SPEAKER_00Okay, cool. And that was a perfect transition because in our last few minutes, I would love to know. You say you're a multi hyphenate entrepreneur. I would love to know. Your definition of what that means, all you're involved in, and just in general, what you didn't know as a professional athlete that you've learned now working in the corporate world?
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's a great question. So, yeah, so I always was um as an athlete, I never wanted to be boxed in or just like, oh, he's a jock. That's how he got this opportunity, or uh because he played sports. So I was always like just trying things, side hustles, ventures, informational interviews, externships in the offseason, because I didn't want there to be any excuse. It's one of the reasons why I um got my degrees while I was playing, so that when I was done, there wasn't like, oh, he just got a handout. Um, and through that, I was able to like just develop some skills and learn that, you know, some of the things that I learned while playing have allowed me to do things that, you know, you probably didn't need to go to school for, or you or or people go to school for, whether it's marketing, branding, sponsorships, CRM management, um, legal, like looking over contracts. So it was more of the mindset of like uh uh jack of all trades, master of none. And I was like, no, no, no, y'all got to hear the whole quote Jack of all trades, master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.
SPEAKER_00Ah, I never heard that second part.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, people don't want to tell you about the second part. Yeah, so that's where the multi-hyphen came in, and then corporate entrepreneur, because um, similar to just the jack of all trades, uh, corporate with the visa, but uh I'm not like a nine to five sit at the desk all day type of guy. And um, yeah, so I'm just always dabbling uh in my entrepreneurial uh ventures. Uh originally while I was playing, I started a Frugal Athlete, which was an online financial media platform. Basically highlighted athletes that were doing smart things with their money and smart things with their career. Because, you know, as a soccer player, more than likely you're gonna have to work after you're done playing. So, what are the playbooks and pathways that other athletes are doing that we could follow? Because success leaves clues. And um, that's kind of how I started my venture building, I guess. Um it was motivated by watching the broke documentary. And I was like, oh, there has to be athletes that aren't on the broke model. And out and that's kind of how it started. So, in terms of my ventures, um the Frugal Athlete was the start, but now it's since morphed into surf consulting, which is like an athlete empowerment and education company. So we do workshops, speaking engagements, programming for athletes, organizations, um, centered around like athlete empowerment or using sports to build life skills. Um, and then outside of that, I do like partnerships, programs, and platform building, whether it's for athletes, brands, and organizations. So if an athlete's looking to, you know, build out, I know Cameron, I talked to you about some things, um, looking to build out a business or an enterprise or needs career transition advice, uh, we do some consulting there. From a brand perspective, if they're looking for content, talent procurement, different things like that, uh, we help out in that aspect as well. And then um from an organization standpoint, you know, programming, community events, uh, we can help manage those um uh those projects.
SPEAKER_00And I'm curious, I know the NFL sort of as social media has evolved and just maybe more programs have come about. I think a lot of athletes, at least in in the NFL, have um started talking more about business, investing in businesses, like that has become the culture. Is it that way in MLS locker rooms too? Or were you the one who stood out?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I would say when I first came into the league, I was probably one of the ones that stood out. But as I started veering towards the end of my career, it was common, like practice people were talking about it. More so from a soccer perspective. People tend to talk about like the real estate versus the venture and the angel uh deals, but they still were talking about like business and financial moves in the locker room, which was which was great to see. But I would say not to even not to brag or anything, but I was a big um advocate and uh a leader in that trailblaze in that space, at least during my time.
SPEAKER_00It sounds like you're very much the business coach to the athletes.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, trying to be, yeah. So it's been it's been good. Um just trying to be a resource, uh, not to say I have all the answers, but uh I can uh at least put them in the right directions to find more clarity to ask better questions so that they can find answers on their own.
SPEAKER_00And I'm curious, sorry, I was just gonna ask, how did you educate yourself? Because it sounds like you you were the one teaching others. So where did your knowledge come from?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so a lot of reading, uh a lot of informational interviews from people that have been there before. I mentioned Kelvin Beecham, he was someone that I I came across early on as I started a Foo Go athlete as like he's probably one of the better top three NFL or athlete investors, um, just based on his track record, based on his network. Um, so a lot of informational interviews, a lot of relationship building, externships, educational, executive education courses. There isn't like a course that, like an athlete education course that I haven't done or I know the people that have started it. Um and then just like just doing the homework. Um, I would say that's helped me educate. And I'm always trying to learn because I don't have all the answers. I don't know everything. So just yeah, a lot of a lot of a lot of work.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And Moby, I know I know we're talking about um the entrepreneur side of this, but I know we're wrapping up soon as well. I wanted to ask you, um, I I know you're a coach as well. You coach soccer or you used to coach. Um, when it comes to coaching women in the sport, I want to talk about women's soccer really quick. Uh Women's World Cup is coming up this time next year. Um, we saw the pay increase for women's soccer as well. Um, you got the whole Trinity Robin, that that, and that whole thing. She's flashing. Like, yeah, what are your thoughts on the game of soccer when it comes to women in the game?
SPEAKER_03Uh I think it's amazing. If you look at youth sports uh like from a number standpoint, uh women soccer players is probably the highest in terms of participation. Unfortunately, uh women when they reach a certain age, it it tends to fall for whatever reason, injuries, the burnout, um you know, lack of safe spaces for those women. So now with the uh uh pay increase to make it a viable option post-college is great. Um now that we're seeing them on TV as a way, as like a pathway for younger players to look up and say, I want to be like Trinity Robbins when I grow up, I want to be like Mallory Swanson when I grow up, I want to be like uh Lindsay Horon because they're actually seeing them on TV, uh, it's amazing. I think the women's soccer players specifically, they do a great job of being trailblazers and being front of camera and showcasing um their careers, both on the field and off the field, better than a lot of the male counterparts. And now that they have the ability to make the means to support themselves and not have to play and then work and then coach and then do other side hustles, and they can like really focus on their sport, which allows them to perform at a higher level, um, recover quicker, um, do what it takes to be a professional athlete 24-7. Uh, it's amazing to see. And obviously, the US soccer women have been at the upper echelon in terms of the talent, but the other countries, yeah, compared to the men too. But on a global level, the uh the countries, because of the better infrastructure now and the investment, other countries are catching up. So now you're seeing uh a more level playing field across the board from women's soccer, and it is not you're not just seeing that the top the top countries dominate anymore, which is great because now you're seeing, you know, um France and Spain and Nigeria and the Philippines women's team made it to the World Cup. So now you're seeing it from a global standpoint versus just uh like the US and the Swedens and the Germanys that were, you know, good um before.
SPEAKER_00I feel like too, a rising but a rising tide lifts all boats and women's sports are just so much more in the forefront. Caitlin Clark, you know, when there's interest in one sport, then I think people naturally also turn to other sports. And it's why um brand building is so important because people get attached to other people and their stories. And so having those particular um, you know, advocates who you mentioned, I think really helps people uh follow along because they're invested in who they are as people. They want to follow their heroes. Um, but it is interesting because I think one thing that stuck with me as you were talking is that a lot of times the men can go out there and just play their sport, but for women, you have to be the athlete and you have to, you know, wave the flag at all times of being the representative of your sport and to get people to care about it and to make sure that you're um, you know, in all ways uh just representing your sport in the right way, but that you it's like you have to be the athlete and the advocate and the marketing, whereas a lot of men just go out there and play the game.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I want to add in too, like even think about like Serena Williams, right? How she changed the game of tennis. And then like now her and her husband are investing in women's sports. So now that they're more visible and they're fighting to um have those things front and center. So it's it is really cool. Um, I don't know, Whitney, do you have any last any last comments for the mobile?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I had one last question. Obviously, you are interested in so many different things and you've had so many careers already by this point. I'm curious, uh, for lack of a better way to ask it, what you want to be when you grow up, and it's okay if there are multiple things, but like what is it now that you've dipped your feet in a lot of ponds? Like, what is it that you really want to pursue now that your future is really sort of the business side of things?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's a great question. I appreciate you asking. I say I want to be a growth operator for athletes, brands, and organizations. So I would love to be the person that people come to uh to solve problems and provide solutions, whether it's you know building a framework for them to, you know, increase their revenue, uh, but more so, you know, procuring partnerships that make sense and create win-win relationships. Uh what capacity that looks like, I don't know. I think at the moment, my vision is like an operating partner at a sports private equity firm that allows for the growth operations for um the companies that we acquire. But in any capacity, if I could do growth operations for athletes, whether it's helping them build their enterprises or brands, helping their build their town stack and obviously their revenue or organizations to help them integrate into communities from a social impact perspective, that would be um, that would be like justice. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So basically, for any athletes out there, and we're absolutely gonna share this episode, and hopefully lots of athletes will listen to it and hear it between our networks, but you're you are the athlete Gandhi. So whatever it is that help with, they can come to you and you can improve their lives.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So we I I like one thing I did, I was helping an athlete find a chief of staff. And a buddy of mine was like, yo, I know you're trying to help me find like I uh connected him with the buddies, like, how come you don't take this role? It's like, well, first and foremost, I can't because the bandwidth, but you would like knowing this guy and knowing what you do, you are the better person for the opportunity. So, like different things like that. So I like that uh yeah, athlete Gandhi tabs on that.
SPEAKER_00You're like everyone's dad.
SPEAKER_01Uh oh, oh no, I'm just kidding. I'm only what what's your what's your superpower? How do you develop that? Uh that's my last question for you. Yeah, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_03Oh man, that's a good question. Yeah, yeah. I would say, um damn, what's my superpower? I would say, I don't know if this is a superpower, but super observant and knowing how to facilitate what I learn into like an idea or a connection. I don't know if that's like a superpower, but yeah, I'm able to like pick up. And I would say actually, my superpower is making people feel comfortable because people like confide in me, and whether they know I have the answer or not, they're always willing to ask me. I just make people feel comfortable to open up. Nice.
SPEAKER_01Because it sounds like it sounds like you listen. And to be fair, not every not everyone listens, people hear, but they don't listen. So the fact that you're you have a power of listening really well, uh, making people feel comfortable because you're you're understanding what they're saying and applying it. So they're like, dang, he's actually taking notes and he's actually um aware of what's going on. So that's that's a big deal.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think a lot of people don't necessarily care as much as you do. Most people don't have as high of an EQ emotional intelligence. And I also think then you take the action, like you care enough to make the connection, to take that next step. Whereas I think a lot of people just sit back on the information they receive, and you actually care about making a difference in other people's lives and just making the world better with everything that you hear and learn.
SPEAKER_03Uh thank you. That means a lot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, it's it's true. Well, you're a superstar. Um, we appreciate you coming on our podcast. You definitely you you are one of the energy captains. And I learned a ton about soccer and can't wait to follow along throughout your World Cup journey because you're gonna be our eyes and ears at a lot of these games.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Uh we're still hoping maybe Cameron can hook us up with some ticks.
SPEAKER_01Hey, we'll see. I'll I'll send the link if I got if I get the link if I get until then, man. I'm gonna be um thanks for the knowledge. Thanks for taking the time. It's an hour out of the day on a what is it, a two oh Wednesday. Uh it's Wednesday. It's Wednesday. Yeah, on a Wednesday. So yeah, so we we appreciate you. Um, and I'm looking forward to having further conversations, whether it be at work or you know, offline. So, man, we appreciate you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, I appreciate you both, and congrats on everything else building. And yeah, Cam, obviously, uh, see you from time to time in office. So it's cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, whatever we can do. Like now, like I said at the beginning, it's like all of a sudden we're one big family, and how do we ever live without each other? And it's just like so pumped for you know how we can make each other's lives, you know, better. So hopefully, you know, as time goes on, you'll come back on and keep us posted on everything. But your story is amazing, and I think it's you're gonna inspire and help a lot of people with your energy, your outlook, your positivity, and just all the different things that you've done.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much. Means a lot.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. All right, take care. Thanks for coming on.
SPEAKER_03No, most definitely tattoo soon. Peace.